It could trigger a global conflagration…
It could trigger a global conflagration…
It could trigger a global conflagration…
It could trigger a global conflagration…
Thanks, Tom.
what percentage of americans do you think have any idea what “settlers” are in the israeli context?
10%
snap take the under
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It is wild that we have “settlers” in like the cradle of civilization.
Is that where Catan is?
At the risk of appearing like a dumb, uncultured, boorish American…
What DOES “settlers” mean, in the Israeli context?
Is it people who move in and develop undeveloped land? Are they forcibly repossessing land from Palestinians that already live there?
Settlements refer to land that Israelis are living on outside of the 1948 borders. This land was taken/won by Israel after the Six-Day War in 1967.
this is a pretty simplified explanation but it’s a really good start and getting a grip on what’s happening
Yuv on dome other site thinks those maps are wrong. First issue is there never was a Palestine?
It’s good to ask. The Wikipedia page on this is quite thorough:
Sometimes:
In the cases where it happens on “undeveloped” land, it should be noted that
- it’s land Palestinians are barred from, in their own territory (to the extent you can even call the heavily occupied West Bank “their” territory)
- it’s part of an explicit state-sponsored project to increase territorial claims (like China building artificial islands in the South China Sea, but as a war crime; see the “history” section of the settlement wiki page), rather than image the word “settlers” conjures of intrepid pioneers
Don’t think this really addresses his question of what is the mechanism that an Israeli settler gains ownership of land in the West Bank? Like is Israeli government granting public land to them, are the Settlers buying it, are they evicting the Palestinian owners currently living on that plot of land with guns, etc?
It really seems to me that people who don’t know much of the history of the region, which we agree is most people, would look at that map and see every white area after the 1947 panel as illegitimate.
That is a position people are free to take, but this is a problem I expressed earlier in this thread: to protest Israel’s behavior in the West Bank and Gaza puts me in league with a lot of people who deny the legitimacy of the state of Israel.
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Yeah, the main issue is that it suggests Palestine was at some point an actual state, but it’s simply places that Palestinians lived in and maybe had semi-autonomy within. And, like, that 1949-1967 pic, the Gaza Strip is better described as “Egypt.”
I’ve seen my wife’s Palestinian friends post the same map on social media. I don’t think they are endorsing the panel on the left as the natural & just state of things, but rather that the most jarring image is the one on the right (context for that: West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord - Wikipedia).
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Certainly it is a convenient date to start with from Palestinian viewpoint and you would expect each group to portray info in manner most supportive of their cause. I’m sure Israelis could cook up some convincing sequences of maps that started in like 1000 BC that make recent events look different (I made up dates I don’t know history).
Oh, totally, and to me the cause supported by that map is “Israel should go away”.
Also curious if folks with more knowledge of history have thoughts on this.
To me it seems like one of the fundamental underlying tensions here is that
- Outcome of war/military might is a terrible way to determine control of land
- Number one is the way a large portion of worlds borders were drawn/influenced.
So has world forever stopped accepting borders made by war? What happens when the controlling country is so strong it holds land for hundreds of years, then is the border just OK by default now?
You know this map is bullshit and completely wrong right?