But the point here is that it’s not just Israel isolating the Palestinians. Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon all are fine with isolating them as well.
It’s also kind of hard for me to blame Israel for isolating Palestinians given gestures at recent events and gestures at the past 80 years. I don’t think many of us would tolerate a population living in our society where 10% of them would support and/or commit mass murder
That is our society.
Slow pony. I was about to say if we’re not there yet it’s gotta be close.
ehh this feels a little like looking at Jim Crow in the South and being like “why are all these Black people so poor? Must be a reflection of the natural superiority of whites”
No it’s not, and I was being conservative in that 10% number. It’s probably much higher
What? I’m not saying that Israel is superior, just that I can understand how they wouldn’t want a population that’s launched multiple wars for their complete destruction to be a part of their society
where the fuck do you live
ah yes famously this only goes in one direction
Reality? Like I’m sorry guys 10% of the population doesn’t want to murder you. The number of Palestinians that support Hamas is a lot higher than that too
Sorry, my fault for making the analogy unclear. The common thread between the two is that the group in power created the conditions in question (conditions of racial segregation & discrimination in the South, or imprisonment and extreme poverty in Gaza) and then points to it like “we’re all trying to find the guy who did this”.
I don’t think Israel should be allowed to point to the situation in Gaza, that they are heavily responsible for, and be like “sorry nothing we can do here as long as they want to hurt us, total coincidence that this is extremely convenient for us”.
Yeah not said at all
Israeli Arabs are already 20% of Israeli society and doing just fine.
Gaza is what it is today because Israel’s right wing leader’s realized they had a “demographics are destiny” problem given birth rates in Gaza so they decided to wall Gaza off in 2005 to be clear that it’s residents would never, ever have full citizenship rights:
As BS said, it’s bad faith all around and truly a BOTH SIDES situation.
This feels like handing out weapons to a group of Oath Keepers and Proud Boys and telling them “go nuts, it’s purge day”
I strongly believe that Israel isn’t solely responsible for Gaza like the south is for poor black people.
For starters, they aren’t the only country locking up those people there. Egypt does as well. Egypt wants nothing to do with that population, just like the rest of the Arab world wants nothing to do with the Palestinians for various reasons.
Furthermore, it’s not like the animosity from the Gaza Strip to Israel started after the blockades and isolation. It’s been there literally the entire time. Their leadership explicitly has genocidal aims today.
Israel has shown an ability to make lasting serious peace with their Muslim neighbors as well.
Again, it’s not that Israel is blameless here, but I don’t think many in this thread are taking the conundrum they’re in as seriously as they should. I don’t think many of us would tolerate peace in the situation they live in, nor would we be ok with integration of our society with a people who really want to murder us.
To be clear, the above interpretation of the motives for “disengaging” from Gaza is straight from the horse’s mouth.
In a November 2003 interview, Ehud Olmert, Sharon’s deputy leader, who had been “dropping unilateralist hints for two or three months”, explained his developing policy as follows:[10][11][12]
There is no doubt in my mind that very soon the government of Israel is going to have to address the demographic issue with the utmost seriousness and resolve. This issue above all others will dictate the solution that we must adopt. In the absence of a negotiated agreement – and I do not believe in the realistic prospect of an agreement – we need to implement a unilateral alternative… More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated, two-state solution, because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one. From a struggle against ‘occupation,’ in their parlance, to a struggle for one-man-one-vote. That is, of course, a much cleaner struggle, a much more popular struggle – and ultimately a much more powerful one. For us, it would mean the end of the Jewish state… the parameters of a unilateral solution are: To maximize the number of Jews; to minimize the number of Palestinians; not to withdraw to the 1967 border and not to divide Jerusalem… Twenty-three years ago, Moshe Dayan proposed unilateral autonomy. On the same wavelength, we may have to espouse unilateral separation… [it] would inevitably preclude a dialogue with the Palestinians for at least 25 years.[13]
So Israel should have accepted a situation where they would have eventually given up control of their government to a population who has a big section that supports genocide at the current moment?
Like sure guys let’s just hope that it works out? That is an impossible ask for Israel
You think the 20% of Israeli Arabs living peacefully with their 80% Israeli Jewish neighbors are just biding their time to genocide them?
maybe you should read what you actually typed
Ok I think we’re capable of looking at this with a little more detail than Arab and non-Arab. Arabs living in Israel aren’t the same group as people living in the West Bank for a multitude of reasons
what in goddamn fuck are you talking about
like you’re presenting this as “israel integrate palestinians” as if there 1) that’s the only option AND 2) as if that wouldn’t require a bunch of other stuff to happen (e.g. Israel would need to stop the blockade and a bunch of other policies that are inflaming the situation)