What is this, take a huge shit on the base day?
Maybe itās a hot take, but the bases are locked in. And by bases I donāt mean pro-Trump and pro-Biden, I mean pro-Trump and anti-Trump.
Ds need to make some efforts to get some part of their message through to so-called moderates and independents, especially in swing states. And a lot of those people actually like Obama and the Clintons. I think a third of AZ voters are independents and they donāt want to hear a bunch of AOC-style Democratic Socialism coming from Joe Biden.
They liked Mitt Romney, Jeff Flake, John McCain. They like the idea of reasonable republicans who had integrity and character. Most have to know Trump is a nihilistic narcissist racist liar and they donāt really want to vote for him.
Iām on board with anything that can drive these voters against Trump. Even if they canāt bring themselves to pull the lever for Biden, some will stay home.
Unless these efforts have a real risk of alienating the base to the point where itās going to cost votes, bring on Bill and Hillary. āIāve never been a big fan of āmy body my choiceāā is a gaffe; ālet me introduce you to my friend Bill Clintonā is not.
And donāt tell me there arenāt enough undecideds to mattter because we all know this whole thing might just come down to a few thousand (hundred?) voters in AZ or Michigan or whatever.
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Bill getting involved is fine, Hillary is way more polarizing and shoulders an awful lot of the blame for Trump coming to power. Her presence in the news gets the right that much more fired up, and I donāt think she offsets that by firing up the left.
I think folks too shook about the abortion comments. Majority of electorate supports abortion only with restrictions and Biden been pretty clear throughout this presidency the restriction he supports is Roe vs Wade standard
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Yeah itās not changing his stance, but itās sticking a finger in the eye of a lot of his base - the types of people among the most likely to volunteer.
I knocked on doors for him in the rain last time, I wonāt lift a finger except to vote this time. Heās been too shitty on too many issues.
As long you as keep the door open to the lack of self autonomy of women then conversation is about where is the line not should there be a line.
(But practically, I think the majority want some limit, such as Roe, not many want viable fetuses aborted except in her life or the fetus).
But Biden doesnāt need to say that part out loud.
But of course the nut jobs want pregnancy as a punishment for having sex. And they are increasingly willing to say it. There is no reason for Biden to publicly declare some half assed empathy to swing R voters (there arenāt any of those, they will either vote against Trump or they wonāt).
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Itās pretty far from āfineā imo. The Clintons need to go away forever from anything connected to politics.
(I do agree that Hillary is more toxic than Bill, but they are both toxic)
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Yeah thatās fair. I guess I would rephrase it as, āI donāt think Bill getting involved reduces our chances of winning, I do think Hillary getting involved does that.ā
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Donāt worry guys, 90s style triangulation is back!
Now, in the estimation of some liberals, itās only natural for Biden to call on Billās advice considering the political landscape. āThe environment is a lot more Clintonesque than Obama era,ā said one very senior D.C. Democrat who dismisses fears that ā90s-style triangulation is a recipe for disaster.
Heās just fucking stupid and scoring own-goals, like why are you adding disclaimers and caveats to your support for one of the single most important issues you need to run on in this election?
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Because disclaimers and caveats on the issue most clearly represent both his own and the average Americans beliefs on the topic?
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The biggest problem is Bidenās support of the filibuster. Bidenās approach to abortion rights is to codify Roe v Wade with 60 votes in the Senate. Does anyone here think Democrats will have 60 Senate seats at any point in Joe Bidenās lifetime? Does anyone here think Biden believes that?
Biden has no actual intent of codifying Roe. Heās really running on, āMaybe itāll be codified in 20 years.ā
Letās be clear here: that does nothing for women currently of child bearing age.
Joe Biden remains the ānothing will fundamentally changeā candidate. Things get worse as a result of Republican presidents, they donāt change under Democrats, and the country moves towards a right-wing dystopia.
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In the context of winning elections, should we care about the āaverage Americanās beliefsā when that average includes all the people who are going to vote for Trump? Youāre not gonna win the election by appealing to Trump voters, so itās unclear how a quote like
Iāve never been supportive of, you know, āItās my body, I can do what I want with it.ā
does anything but hurt you with the people you actually need to turn out to win.
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I think he just saying it because he thinks itās true which obviously not good political strategy in of itself but if you were looking strategically probably a reasonable argument the strongest pro choice folks are educated enough on issue to know anything is better than Trump stacking court for another 50 years so will turn out anyway and Biden is really looking to assure small slices of folks in the middle that its OK to support Roe V Wade but feel conflicted about topic overall.
Based on the article, he decided to reiterate his nonsupport of my body, my choice, on his own without prompting. He could have used that time to be like, āHey, these crazy fucks are making 12 year old rape victims have babies and banning IVF.ā
Instead he decided to make it clear heās not a supporter of female bodily autonomy.
I think youāll find youāre wrong on this, or at least misled. Most recent polls Iāve seen show majority support for abortion in all or most circumstances. And the polls that donāt ā the ones that the anti-choice side keeps hammering ā often contain leading (or misleading) questions or other poor polling practices.
Look at it this way, if the majority of America favours restrictions, then why do restrictions keep losing at the ballot box, even in the deepest red states?
I think that is because people have internalized the Roe vs Wade viability standard (like Biden) as a baseline assumption in their definition of āall circumstancesā and arenāt really considering all circumstances from a philosophical standpoint
Because the restrictions are way more strict than the restrictions most people support
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At the risk of pissing off more people who voted for him in 2020.
(Many of whom are already annoyed with his time in office)
Yeah Iām not saying itās a good gamble, youāre 100% right. Maybe he thinks lot his more left voters genuinely think Trump a threat to democracy and have no choice but to show up. I agree that is a dangerous risk.