There does come a point where your beliefs are odious enough that they inform my opinion of your character. Aggressively defending an active genocide being one of those points shouldn’t be controversial on a left wing board. The fact that we have Israel slappies in here is weird/concerning honestly and the fact that neither one of them, to the best of my knowledge, is even Israeli (which is pretty much the only reason I’d ever give someone a pass for this) makes it worse not better.
We should shut this entire thread down for the good of the site. This isn’t a subject reasonable people can disagree about anymore and I don’t know how to be nice about it. I’m actively trying not to look at this thread and will probably put it in on mute.
But yeah if you don’t want me to talk to you like you’re the government of Israel maybe don’t take their absolutely nazi party line.
Sure, but a sizable portion of this forum tries to pretend that when 200 deaths are reported by hamas its all civilians and Israel’s fault, so you’ll have to excuse me while I think we should have a higher standard
This is at least the second time you’ve remarked that someone who supports Israel MUST have strong ties to an Israeli person. It’s disgustingly anti-semitic and myopic to repeatedly suggest that only Israeli “slappies” care about the plight of Israeli Jews.
in this case “Hamas” reported 270+ deaths, it’s very plausible 200 are civilians, and I think you just invented the idea that your opponents assume they’re all civilians; I don’t hold this belief but Israel does mostly kill civilians
Israel planned an operation with a contingency to light up a fucking busy residential area with bombs, and did so, and it’s really sad to be in here like “how dare Hamas force them to bomb all these people”
First off, you were the one who conflated total number dead with civilians.
Also, why were there civilian deaths goofy? Because any answer that isn’t “hamas took hostages, hid them in a civilian area, then started shooting rpgs at retreating vehicles” is utter horseshit
Ok I ignored that the first time. But ok motherfucker, why did Israel call in air support? Like what the fuck are they supposed to do?
Like I really try to just let some of you guys have your feelings, but fuck you make it hard. Criticizing israel for the result of this raid is only possible if you’ve lost the plot
Also, blaming Israel for deaths like this clearly emboldens Hamas to use more human shields.
You can reasonably expect Israel to not carpet bomb Gaza. You cannot expect Israel to not attempt raids to rescue hostages that include air support after Hamas starts firing off RPGs. If you expect the latter, there’s some really hard questions for you as to why
Wikipedia estimates Hamas’s manpower at 20,000 to 40,000. We’ll go with 40,000. It says Israel has detained 9,312. Obviously as a good and moral actor, it must only be detaining Hamas. So that leaves 30,688. It says they’ve killed 37,084. So, if they’ve completely wiped out Hamas then that’s 6,396 civilian deaths and we’re in the neighborhood of a 6 to 1 total relative to the 10/7 terror attack. Of course, the war is ongoing and nobody says Hamas has been wiped out. So it’s hard to imagine it’s any less than 15 or 20 to 1 proportionally, and that makes it around 50% Hamas deaths and 50% civilian deaths.
Falling back on that argument stopped working when like every independent NGO that is respected on these matters starting calling this some form of a genocide.
Hamas has agency in their decisions. They can not hide hostages in a “civilians” house. They can not take them in the first place. They can not respond with RPGs in crowded areas.
Hamas took the hostages, started firing off explosives, and their people suffered as a result. They are responsible
None of this is relevant here. Hamas doesn’t distinguish between civilian and military deaths. When casualty numbers from this incident were reported, goofy et al treated it as civilian deaths.
This is especially problematic as Hamas seems to be specifically using “civilians” to control and hide these hostages.
That doesn’t even get into how Hamas caused the civilian deaths
And there it is, “their people.” These women and children were “Hamas’s people” so sucks that they died but them the breaks. Meanwhile, Bibi, documented supporter of Hamas and war criminal, gets to address Congress.
Of course they shouldn’t do that, but that doesn’t mean Israel is right to bomb the whole neighborhood. If Hamas snuck into Israel tomorrow and held 6 hostages in an Israeli neighborhood and whatever response Israel took killed 100+ Israeli civilians I doubt you would still relieve Israel of any fault for their deaths. (Obviously the scenarios are different so don’t try to nit on the specific details of these two scenarios).
We’re getting close to the point where Israel could nuke the Gaza Strip and CN would be saying “Welp, that’s on Hamas, what else could Bibi do?”
That’s a little hyperbolic, but not much. Like nothing Netanyahu actually does is going to make him question the use of too much force here. If we haven’t found his limit yet, we probably aren’t going to.
So either he thinks all Palestinians are responsible for the actions of Hamas, or he thinks one innocent Israeli life is worth nearly infinite innocent Palestinian lives. I can’t see another logical conclusion about his point of view.
