From this link:
On the bright side, at least they didnât murder their own hostages this time.
I remain convinced that the only way people can countenance this kind of violence from afar is because they live with the complete safety & certainty that the people they hold dear are immune to the threat that every Palestinian in Gaza (and many in the West Bank!) now faces, so it can remain perfectly abstract and sanitized, a comforting sense that Bad Things are happening to Bad People somewhere in the world and isnât that nice.
People tolerate it because true or not itâs being portrayed as happening in the context of a war as opposed to a civilian rescue operation. Once itâs a war all bets off for moral judgement. Approximately nobody cares we killed 500k German civilians
Comparing Hamas to bank robbers is ludicrous. Come on now. These are people held who are no way POWs, held for months, held specifically in civilian areas by hamas using civilians as cover, which Israel engaged in close combat to free.
Every one of those civilian deaths is on Hamas, and itâs outrageous to blame it on Israel
Bullshit! You completely disregard Palestinian lives.
No idea what that means in this context.
I couldnât tell if your response to CN was serious or ironic.
Oh, Iâm serious.
Hamas is the one disregarding Palestinian lives here, not me.
Hamas is not the one killing them. Israel has agency.
Hamas taking hostages doesnât completely absolve Israel of any responsibility to civilians though, like they couldnât just decide to bring out biological weapons and nukes and say it would be OK because of what Hamas did. There obviously is a line somewhere. Like both Israel and Hamas can be wrong, it doesnât have to be one or the other.
Well there was your first mistake.
It does if youâre a black and white thinker with a huge tribal loyalty blind spot (and your tribe is rich educated white people letâs be very clear about that) that totally prevents you from absorbing information from any perspective different from your own. [removed by mod]
Hamas is a player in this particular game. But they are not a âsideâ in this conflict in the same way that Israel is. They only exist because of Israeli support designed to prevent the Palestinians from having a unified legitimate government. The Israeli position that they can do whatever they want to the locals until Hamas, a thing they semi promoted until it bit them, agrees to who knows because they wonât even take their own deals is crazy.
Hamas is not a country. Itâs a quasi criminal enterprise quasi political party quasi terrorist organization in Gaza, a place the Israeliâs have been clearing block by block for decades. Itâs a depressing chaotic place with a lot of very unhappy people who hate the Israeliâs for excellent reasons. Israeli behavior the last few decades has been precisely the opposite of what you do to suppress an insurgency like Hamas because they did not want to eradicate Hamas they wanted to prop it up to use as justification to keep clearing Gaza.
Israel can stop killing civilians whenever they want. They reached the point of proportional response for what was done to them months ago and are sitting somewhere in the 25-40x range I havenât done the math. The reason the entire world is about to treat them like apartheid South Africa is that they fucking deserve it. They better enjoy the next year or two of the special relationship with the US because that shit is over unless Trump gets reelected.
We really need to get out of the Middle East yesterday.
Hamas took civilian hostages, held them in civilian areas, and fought when found.
Any deaths are their fault. This isnt Israel indiscriminately bombing civilians. They are attempting to free their hostages that were taken completely unjustifiably
Sure, and in this case itâs hamas
This is like a reverse trolley problem where you prefer to kill 50 to save 1.
Iâm sorry but there are consequences when a government takes hostages and keeps them for months. You can not like consequences all you want, but the fault for that result lies squarely on Hamas. You cannot expect Israel to not try to get their countrymen back because Hamas has chosen to hide them among civilians