Please use actual stats instead of made up nonsense.
The largest real wage growth in America was in the bottom 10% in 2020-22, even accounting for inflation.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/29/low-income-wages-employment-00097135
There are ways to argue the economy isn’t great. The trope of “it’s only good for the rich” isn’t backed by data. If you think otherwise, make an actual fact based argument otherwise
Tell me why I should think that the economy is good when there are stories like this:
Yeah definitely time for those infrastructure bill projects to start spending real money. If the economy is where it is now on election day we actually might be fucked. That or the fed better actually start dropping interest rates whether or not inflation is fully under whatever they consider to be control.
Myself and/or @boredsocial did that last time this argument came up. Pretty sure you handwaved it away or ignored it, stopped responding, waited a few weeks and now have resumed saying the same stuff you were saying before. Why should I waste time laying it out for you when that’s your track record?
The short version is the indicators used are bullshit, and they have been for a while now, because the wealthy don’t want to have to help everyone else and want the biggest slice of the pie possible. Again, the CEO of Kellogg’s is suggesting that people eat cereal for dinner because they can’t afford a regular meal. That’s where we’re at.
The CEO of Kellogg’s is having a Marie Antoinette moment, and you’re in here as a top 5%er tripling down on insisting everything is fine for everyone.
The short version is that neither of you have data to back your assertion, so you criticize the data itself instead. It’s a classic bad argument.
You made a very specific claim here that’s different than what was discussed before, by saying the economy wasn’t good for the poor. When confronted with data that is has actually been good, you don’t address it, and instead resort to attacking me.
At least eyebooger jumped in to point out that things aren’t yet acceptable and have decreased by one measure.
It’s just baffling to me how so many here are explaining Trumps polling strength due to a weak economy when y’all happily pointed out the economic anxiety stuff was utter bullshit in 2016-2020. Trumps support is built on racism and a coalition of groups who value some individual issue (ie prolifers, rich who want low taxes and less unions, etc).
It is not built on the weakness of the economy ffs
People who are doing well don’t understand how segmented the economic situation is.
There are key dividing factors:
Did you own a home (or lock a rate) prior to March 2022?
Do you have childcare costs?
If you were middle class, owned a home before March 2022 and don’t have childcare costs, you’re probably doing reasonably well to very well. You were insulated from the rising housing costs, which outpaced inflation and is a huge portion of the average household budget. The same applies to childcare costs.
Problem is, around half of Millennials and 75% of Gen Z do not own a home right now, which means some of the ones who do have a huge payment as a result of rising housing costs and higher rates. And those of us who don’t are subject to rent increases that are outpacing inflation. CPI is 3.1%? Oh, cool, but my rent just went up 7% and it makes up almost 40% of my budget.
I don’t have kids, but I’ve heard horror stories about childcare costs for couples with two kids. Like, $10,000 a year per child. Median individual income is about $40,000. Figure about $32K after taxes, and 63% of it is going to childcare for the median second working parent.
People being hit with both are absolutely getting stomped on, people getting hit by one are struggling, and people getting hit by neither are doing pretty well. But largely, those who are not under one/both of these pressures don’t understand how bad it is - because why would they? They’re not tracking mortgage rates and doomscrolling Zillow and tracking rent inflation.
An important excerpt from the article I posted (emphasis mine):
Pandemic-era aid programs, including the emergency expansion of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP; rental assistance; and direct stimulus payments, led to a record decline in poverty, experts say. At the same time, food insecurity rates fell, too.
“It speaks to the importance of a strong safety net,” Dean said.
However, most of these relief measures wound down or expired in 2022, with many states reducing their emergency SNAP allotments.
Can someone remind me who was president in 2022 and who controlled the House and Senate that year.
What about Biden -5?
I did post data weeks ago, you didn’t respond. So did bs. You handwaved it away. I’m not going to fall for the Karl Rove bullshit again.
Engage Demand an elaborate, time-consuming comparison / analysis between your position and theirs. Entangle Insist that the Liberal put their posts in their own words. That will consume the most time and effort for the Liberal poster
They will be unable to spread numerous points on numerous blogs if you have them occupied. Allowing a Liberal to post a web link is too quick and efficient for them. Tie them up. We are going for delay of game here. Demoralize Dismiss their narrative as rubbish immediately.
Do not even read it. Once the Liberal goes through the trouble to research, gather, collate, compose and write their narrative your job is to discredit it. Make it obvious you tossed their labor-intensive narrative aside like garbage. This will have the effect of demoralizing the Liberal poster.
You’ve ignored every post I’ve made with data/facts.
I’d argue not being able to put food on the table is more significant than “decreased by one measure.”
Utter bullshit for Trumpers, not utter bullshit societally. The people driving F-150s to MAGA rallies and doing boat parades aren’t suffering from economic anxiety.
Nobody is saying it is. The issue isn’t that Trump is growing in popularity. It’s that Biden is not popular, and a lot of people are pissed at him. It’s not likely to drive people to vote for Trump, but rather to drive people to stay home.
The last time we had this argument, BS posted two links. One was a long analysis by a Nobel Prize winning economist. You completely ignored that one, and argued with the other one. Now you’re claiming we haven’t backed anything up with data. I assure you, the Nobel winning economist used data.
The poll says 23 percent of Black people are voting Trump. Do we think that’s credible? The accompanying article doesn’t mention that, you’d think it would if they had confidence in the statistic.
I think it’s possible that 23% of Black people currently say they’re voting for Trump, but I think a lot of them will come home when they hear Trump talk again.
Then again, I saw a video of migrants stuck on the Mexican side of the border fence chanting “Trump Trump Trump,” when he visited, so… who the fuck knows? Even Trump was surprised.
CN is gonna be arguing the data all the way to a 300+ EV Trump victory, you ain’t gonna change his mind. Right now kind of reminds me of the 2016 primaries when DJT was waffle crushing the polls and all the big brains in the media were like “just wait until the debates”, “just wait until the primaries start”, “just wait until… oopsie he won the nomination”. Biden is consistently behind and I don’t see anything magical that’s gonna save him on the horizon. I’m not ruling out him getting lucky somehow coming from behind to win, but as it stands right now he’s drawing very thin and every day that goes by where nothing changes makes his odds even worse.
What are you reading?
There have been a lot of recent polls with numbers like these, it’s starting to look credible to me.
…your posts?
I think Trump is continuously surprised at just how fucking stupid his supporters are.
I don’t think CN thinks that Biden is winning this. Just that the economy is not as bad as the “consensus view’ seems to be. At this point Trump is definitely winning this. He’s going to be convicted of a bunch of felonies in NY next month and it’s not going to do a damn thing to his polling.
It might make his number go up